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Pėrdorimi i ēėshtjes
I vjetėr 4.6.2007, 14:51   1
mesdimr
MBARĖVAJTJA
 
mesdimr
 
Anėtarėsuar: 6.2001

Pyetje «Kryqėzimi»


Problemi qė lind ėshtė se kryqėzimi* mirėfilli nuk dokumentohet mjaftueshėm dhe nuk ka as gjetje tė mundshme arkeologjike qė ta mbėshtesin. Nė fakt nuk ka fare, pėrveē njė rasti tė dyshimtė para njė viti nė Jeruzalem. Ndėrkohė qė hunjėzimi ka qenė mė i pėrhapur dhe ėshtė dhe i dokumetuar. Hunjėzimin po e fus si neologjizėm pėr nguljen e viktimave nė hunj, kalimin nė heje, derisa tė gjejmė ndonjė mė tė pėrshtatshme.

Ēėshtja ėshtė pėr grumbullimin e burimeve pėr rastet e hunjėzimeve qė kanė ndodhur historikisht nėpėr trojet tona dhe mė gjerė nė Mesdhe. Mė intereson mė shumė ushtria romake se sa rastet e tjera, megjithėse me sa di nga raportimet metoda praktikohej vetėm nga kartagjenasit.

Kam pėrshtypjen se nė shumė raste pėrkthyesit evropianė, sidomos ata anglezė, qė merren sot pėr bazė, kanė bėrė njė lėmsh terminologjik dhe kanė pėrkthyer gabim disa ekzekutime si varjet apo hunjėzimet, duke i sjellė si kryqėzime. Ēėshtja ėshtė e rėndėsishme sepse me kėto lajthitje kanė kontribuar nė shtrembėrimin me ose pa dashje tė historisė sė ushtrisė romake, gjysma e legjioneve tė sė cilės qenė ilire, kėshtu qė na hyn dhe ne nė punė.

Shkurtimisht: Sot "tė gjithė e dinė" se romakėt "kryqėzonin". Por, pyetja qė shtrohet kėtu ėshtė: A kanė "kryqėzuar" ndonjėherė romakėt? Faktet.

_____
* Ku me "kryqėzim" kuptojmė gozhdim tė personit nė drunj a dėrrasa tė mbėrthyera kryq.
  Pėrgjigju duke cituar
I vjetėr 4.6.2007, 15:22   2
mesdimr
MBARĖVAJTJA
 
mesdimr
 
Anėtarėsuar: 6.2001
Rasti i parė ku haset fjala "kryqėzim" ėshtė tek "Historitė" e Polibit; por jo tek versioni origjinal grek, por tek ai anglez...

Jemi nė vitin 260 p.e.s. pas betejės sė Mylit nė luftėn e parė punike, mes Kartagjenės dhe Romės ku pas humbjes, njė Hanibal, bir i Gisgut, pasi kish mbledhur dhe njė tufė nga oficerėt e vet mė tė mirė pėr kundėrsulm, bllokohet nga romakėt nė portin e Sardenjės dhe humbet luftėn. Kartagjenasit qė arritėn tė shpėtojnė e arrestojnė gjeneralin e tyre dhe pėr shkak tė humbjes "e kryqėzojnė". Libri 1, kreu 24, rreshti 6:

Citim:
[5] μετὰ δὲ ταύτην τὴν πρᾶξιν ὁ μὲν Ἀννίβας ἔχων τὰς διασωθείσας ναῦς ἀπέπλευσεν εἰς τὴν Καρχηδόνα, μετ' οὐ πολὺ δ' ἐκεῖθεν εἰς Σαρδόνα διῆρε, προσλαβὼν ναῦς καί τινας τῶν ἐνδόξων τριηράρχων. [6] χρόνοις δ' οὐ πολλοῖς κατόπιν ἐν τῇ Σαρδόνι συγκλεισθεὶς ὑπὸ Ῥωμαίων ἔν τινι λιμένι καὶ πολλὰς ἀποβαλὼν τῶν νεῶν, παραυτίκα συλληφθεὶς ὑπὸ τῶν διασωθέντων Καρχηδονίων ἀνεσταυρώθη.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...ut=;loc=1.24.1
Citim:
After this action Hannibal sailed across to Carthage with such ships as he had left; and thence before very long crossed to Sardinia, with a reinforcement of ships, and accompanied by some of those whose reputation as naval commanders stood high. But before very long he was blockaded in a certain harbour by the Romans, and lost a large number of ships; and was thereupon summarily arrested by the surviving Carthaginians and crucified.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin... =24:section=1
Fjala qė kėrkohet "ἀνεσταυρώθη" v.I nj. "σταυρόω" - do tė thotė rrethoj me hunj, gardhoj me hunj, fortifikoj; dhe ajo qė na intereson kėtu: ngul nė hu, vendos nė hu, shpoj nė hu.

Pra Hanibali ėshtė hunjėzuar, nuk ėshtė "kryqėzuar". Pėrkthyesit anglezė, qė janė pėrgjegjės pėr kėtė ngatėrresė, termin "σταυρός" tė greqishtes sė lashtė e ngatėrrojnė me "kryqin" e sotėm. Ky ėshtė gabimi kryesor qė ka ndikuar nė perceptimin e mbrapshtė tė punės.

"Σταυρός" nė kohėn dhe gjuhėn pėr tė cilėn flasim, greqishte klasike, do tė thoshte hu pingul, shtagė, hell; me sinonime "σκόλοψ, παλούκι, πάσσαλος", qė janė po hunj e heje.

"Σταυρος" u bė pėrkthim i latines "crux" vetėm nė kohėt bizantine, d.m.th. shekuj tė tėrė mbrapa. Por kuptimi nė kohėn e Polibit ėshtė hu, dhe pėr mė tepėr qė mė parė akoma, qė nė greqishten homerike nė Iliadė dhe Odise, ku kishte kuptimin e njė huri, ose druri tė gjatė, ose cungu tė gjatė. Kategorikisht asnjė lidhje me "kryqin".

Kryq ka qenė ndoshta mėnyra se si lidheshin hunjtė gjatė fortifikimeve tė kampeve, nė mėnyrė qė tė ndalonin pikė sė pari kalorėsinė armike, duke nxjerrė majat kryesisht nė anėt e jashtme tė murit (mprehja bėhej sidoqoftė nga tė dy anėt). Prej kėtej mund tė hamendėsohet se pse mund tė jetė kryer njėsimi mė vonė me "crux" tė latinishtes, por ky ėshtė thjesht spekulim.

Parė dhe me syrin praktik, metoda e hunjėzimit ėshtė mė e thjeshtė pėr ekzekutuesin dhe mė efikase dhe makabėr pėr viktimėn, apo shikuesin, dhe nga ēdo anė mė praktike se sa mbėrthimi i hujnve (me gozhda, litarė, ndėrfutje) nė formė kryqi, varja dhe mandej pritja derisa i lidhuri tė japė shpirt (kur i lidhuri ka dhe mundėsi shpėtimi).

Ajo qė ka rėndėsi tė dorės sė parė ėshtė dhe simbolika e pėrdorur. Nė rastin e kryqit nuk ka kurrfarė kuptimi, kurse nė rastin e hunjėzimit viktima nė njėfarė mėnyre i bėhet sakrificė zotit tė luftės si tė ishte kafshė e rėndomtė e shkuar nė hell dhe kjo s'duhet anashkaluar sepse ėshtė shtysa e parė psikologjike nė mėnyrėn e ekzekutimit. Shtysa e dytė ėshtė frikėsimi i kundėrshtarit, kur kjo kryhet nė mėnyrė demonstrative. Njė rob i varur a mbėrthyer nė kryq tė ngjall mėshirė jo frikė. Frikė tė ngjall njė rob i ngulur tejpėrtej nė hu, me rropullitė tė dala nga goja e i larė nė gjak.


---


Tė tjera nga Polibi qė duket pėrdoruesi kryesor i termit:

Citim:
[5] Καρχηδόνιοι δὲ τὸν μὲν στρατηγὸν αὐτῶν ἀνεσταύρωσαν, νομίσαντες αὐτὸν ἀβούλως, ἅμα δ' ἀνάνδρως προέσθαι τὴν ἀκρόπολιν: [6] αὐτοὶ δὲ τῇ μὲν ναυτικῇ δυνάμει περὶ Πελωριάδα στρατοπεδεύσαντες, τῷ δὲ πεζῷ στρατεύματι περὶ τὰς Σύνεις καλουμένας ἐνεργῶς προσέκειντο τῇ Μεσσήνῃ.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...=&lo c=1.11.5
Citim:
[3] αὖθις δὲ τῶν Καρχηδονίων στρατηγὸν ἐξαποστειλάντων μετὰ δυνάμεως Ἄννωνα, κἄπειτα καὶ τούτων τῶν δυνάμεων ἐγκαταλιπουσῶν τὸν Ἄννωνα καὶ μεταθεμένων πρὸς σφᾶς, [4] γενόμενοι ζωγρίᾳ κύριοι τοῦ προειρημένου, παραυτίκα τοῦτον μὲν ἀνεσταύρωσαν, μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα παρηλλαγμένας ἐπινοοῦντες τιμωρίας πάντας τοὺς ἐν τῇ νήσῳ Καρχηδονίους στρεβλοῦντες ἀπέκτειναν:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...=&lo c=1.79.4
Citim:
LXXXVI. Πράξας δὲ τὰ προδεδηλωμένα τοῖς μὲν Καρχηδονίοις αὖθις ἐλπίδα παρέστησε μεγάλην πρὸς τὸ βέλτιον, καίπερ ἀπεγνωκόσιν ἤδη τὴν σωτηρίαν: αὐτὸς δὲ μετὰ Ναραύα καὶ μετ' Ἀννίβου τὴν χώραν ἐπῄει καὶ τὰς πόλεις. [2] προσχωρούντων δὲ καὶ μετατιθεμένων πρὸς αὐτοὺς τῶν Λιβύων διὰ τὸ γεγονὸς εὐτύχημα, ποιησάμενοι τὰς πλείστας πόλεις ὑφ' ἑαυτοὺς ἧκον ἐπὶ τὸν Τύνητα καὶ πολιορκεῖν ἐνεχείρησαν τοὺς περὶ τὸν Μάθω. [3] κατὰ μὲν οὖν τὴν ἀπὸ Καρχηδόνος πλευρὰν προσεστρατοπέδευσεν Ἀννίβας, κατὰ δὲ τὴν ἀπέναντι ταύτης Ἀμίλκας. [4] μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα προσαγαγόντες πρὸς τὰ τείχη τοὺς περὶ τὸν Σπένδιον αἰχμαλώτους ἐσταύρωσαν ἐπιφανῶς. [5] οἱ δὲ περὶ τὸν Μάθω κατανοήσαντες τὸν Ἀννίβαν ῥᾳθύμως καὶ κατατεθαρρηκότως ἀναστρεφόμενον, ἐπιθέμενοι τῷ χάρακι πολλοὺς μὲν τῶν Καρχηδονίων ἀπέκτειναν, πάντας δ' ἐξέβαλον ἐκ τῆς στρατοπεδείας, ἐκυρίευσαν δὲ καὶ τῆς ἀποσκευῆς ἁπάσης, ἔλαβον δὲ καὶ τὸν στρατηγὸν Ἀννίβαν ζωγρίᾳ. [6] τοῦτον μὲν οὖν παραχρῆμα πρὸς τὸν τοῦ Σπενδίου σταυρὸν ἀγαγόντες καὶ τιμωρησάμενοι πικρῶς ἐκεῖνον μὲν καθεῖλον, τοῦτον δ' ἀνέθεσαν ζῶντα καὶ περικατέσφαξαν τριάκοντα τῶν Καρχηδονίων τοὺς ἐπιφανεστάτους περὶ τὸ τοῦ Σπενδίου σῶμα, [7] τῆς τύχης ὥσπερ ἐπίτηδες ἐκ παραθέσεως ἀμφοτέροις ἐναλλὰξ διδούσης ἀφορμὰς εἰς ὑπερβολὴν τῆς κατ' ἀλλήλων τιμωρίας. [8] ὁ δὲ Βάρκας ὀψὲ μὲν συνῆκε τὴν ἐπίθεσιν τῶν ἐκ τῆς πόλεως διὰ τὴν ἀπόστασιν τῶν στρατοπέδων: οὐδὲ μὴν συνεὶς οὐδ' οὕτως κατετάχει πρὸς τὴν βοήθειαν διὰ τὰς μεταξὺ δυσχωρίας. [9] διόπερ ἀναζεύξας ἀπὸ τοῦ Τύνητος καὶ παρελθὼν ἐπὶ τὸν Μακάραν ποταμὸν κατεστρατοπέδευσε πρὸς τῷ στόματι τοῦ ποταμοῦ καὶ τῇ θαλάττῃ.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...=&lo c=1.86.3
Nė kėtė kalesėn mė lart flitet pėr mercenarė tė paguar nga kartagjenasit pėr t'i bėrė ballė Romės dhe pėr tė marrė Sardenjėn dhe Siēilinė. Historia ėshtė tepėr interesante dhe shumė e koklavitur, saqė mund tė hapim si ēėshtje mė vete. Polibi bėn njė rrėmujė kombėsish nė gjithė kreun, por emrat e kėtyre ishin... Mathos, Spendios, Autaritas... Madhi, Shpendi, Autariti!

Ajo ēka bie nė sy nė pėrkthimet e mbrapshta tė pėrkthyesve anglezė nė lidhje me studimin ėshtė se sipas tyre do i binte qė tėrė kohės Polibi tė flasė pėr therje mandej pėr vėnie pėr sė gjalli nė... "kryq" (!). Kjo del qesharake, sepse dhe vetė kontekstualisht, pėrveē kuptimit tė pavarur, "kryqi dhe kryqėzimi" kėtu janė... hu dhe hunjėzim. Rrjedhimisht kapja e vėnia pėr sė gjalli (si diēka e shėnueshme dhe e jashtėzakonshme) e gjeneral Hanibalit, kuptohet vetėm nė hu, pėrndryshe ēfarė nėnkuptohet, se normalisht tė kapurit viheshin "nė kryq" pėr sė vdekuri?!

Pėr fat tė keq problemi i terminologjisė sė pėrkthyer gabim nuk mbaron kėtu. Me kėto standarde leshi kanė pėrkthyer njė sėrė veprash.
  Pėrgjigju duke cituar
I vjetėr 5.6.2007, 03:05   3
mesdimr
MBARĖVAJTJA
 
mesdimr
 
Anėtarėsuar: 6.2001
Ėshtė e qartė se cila mitologji ka shėrbyer pėr shtrembėrim, mjafton njė kėrkim nė google me fjalėn crucifixion dhe sqarohet gjithēka, por sidoqoftė, vazhdojmė me rastet.

Bėhet fjalė pėr vitin 241 p.e.s. pėrsėri nė njė pėrleshje mes romakėve dhe kartagjenasve, dhe pėrsėri kartagjenasit "kryqėzojnė" njėrin prej gjeneralėve pas humbjes.

Citim:
Kas Dio, "Historia romake", Libri 12, prg.15.

In spite of everything the Romans carried off the victory, for the Carthaginian vessels were impeded by the fact that they carried freight,--grain and money and other things.

Hanno escaped and hastened at once to Carthage. The Carthaginians, seized with wrath and fear, crucified him and sent envoys to Catulus regarding peace. And he was disposed to end the war since his office was soon to expire and he could not hope to destroy Carthage in so short a time; nor, again, did he care to leave his successors the glory of his own efforts.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/18047/18047-8.zip
Problemi kėtu ėshtė se nuk po gjej versionin greqisht pėr krahasim; dhe nė dallim nga Polibi mė lart qė kishte diferencė dhjetėvjeēarėsh, Dio ka shkruar nė vitet 210+ tė erės sonė, kėshtu qė i bie dhe pak besueshmėria pėr ngjarje qė kanė ndodhur 400 vjet para tij, sidomos pėr sa i pėrket terminologjisė specifike qė na intereson kėtu.

E nqs vazhdohet mė poshtė nė librin 1 tė Dios, gjejmė dhe fragmente tė tilla:

Citim:
But the senate out of consideration for his safety showed a disposition to make peace and to restore the captives. When he was made aware of this, he pretended, in order that he might not be the cause of their letting slip their advantage, that he had swallowed deadly poison and was destined certainly to die from its effects. Hence no agreement and no exchange of prisoners was made. As he was departing in company with the envoys, his wife and children and others clung to him, and the consuls declared they would not surrender him, if he chose to stay, nor yet would they detain him if he was for departing. Consequently, since he preferred not to transgress the oaths, he was carried back. He died of outrages, so the legend reports, perpetrated by his captors. They cut off his eyelids and for a time shut him in darkness, then they threw him into some kind of specially constructed receptacle bristling with spikes; and they made him face the sun; so that through suffering and sleeplessness,--for the spikes kept him from reclining in any fashion,--he perished. When the Romans found it out, they delivered the foremost captives that they held to his children to outrage and put to death in revenge.

[Sidenote: B.C. 250 (_a.u._ 504)] They voted that the consuls, Atilius Gaius, brother of Regulus, and Lucius Manlius, should make a campaign into Libya. On coming to Sicily they attacked Lilybćum and undertook to fill up a portion of the ditch to facilitate bringing up the engines. The Carthaginians dug below the mound and undermined it. As they found this to be a losing game because of the numbers of the opposing workmen, they built another wall, crescent-shaped, inside.
Reguli, ishte gjeneral i Romės qė bėri kėrdinė nė Kartagjenė, por qė kėta tė fundit me ndihmėn e spartanėve arritėn ta kapin rob. Problemi mė lart nė raportimet e Dios, dhe nė pėrgjithėsi nė lashtėsi (ashtu si dhe nė tėrė historinė pėr atė punė), ėshtė se ky gjatė tėrė librit flet me "tė dėgjuara".

Nuk duket dhe aq e vėshtirė tė krijohen "fakte" si kėto mė lart qė janė thjesht "thashetheme" 400 vjet prapa, ose propagandė shtetėrore e Romės pėr tė justifiku ndėrhyrjen ushtarake. Pse e them kėtė? Sepse kėto raste hyjnė gjithnjė ex machina nė rrjedhėn e ngjarjeve gjatė rrėfimit dhe ēuditėrisht i japin pėrligjjen e nevojshme morale palės rrėfimtare.

vijon
  Pėrgjigju duke cituar
I vjetėr 5.6.2007, 23:36   4
Kandhaon
anėtar/e
 
Kandhaon
 
Anėtarėsuar: 8.2006
Vendndodhja: Nė breshta, mes bredhave,
Njė fjalė tjetėr qė pėrdoret nė vend tė fjalės kryqėzim ėshtė edhe fjala "gozhdim". Ndoshta hyn sadopak nė punė kėtu.
  Pėrgjigju duke cituar
I vjetėr 7.6.2007, 18:12   5
mesdimr
MBARĖVAJTJA
 
mesdimr
 
Anėtarėsuar: 6.2001
Qoftė dhe gozhdim nė hu, sėrish problemi mbetet se nuk kish "kryqe". Kėtu qėndron thelbi.

Do shohėsh qė zelli judeokristian nuk shtrembėron vetėm hunjtė pėr tė akomoduar pallavrat mitologjike, por fillon ēdo lloj ekzekutimi ta pėrkthejė e pėrshtasė si "kryqėzim"... Ėshtė interesante, se kur iu kėrkon burimet, rėndom nuk kthejnė pėrgjigje... Shumė-shumė merr ndonjė "po kjo dihet"...
  Pėrgjigju duke cituar
I vjetėr 7.6.2007, 18:55   6
mesdimr
MBARĖVAJTJA
 
mesdimr
 
Anėtarėsuar: 6.2001
Kalojmė tek historia e Herodotit (480 pes - 425 pes). Jemi nė kampin pers, viti 553 p.e.s. Mbreti Astiag i midianėve (shqiptimi sipas defiēitit greqisht) hunjėzon magjistarėt e tij, pėr shkak se i kishin mbushur mendjen tė lironte Kirin, prej tė cilit dhe do tė mundej nė vazhdim.

Citim:
CXXVIII. διαλυθέντος δὲ τοῦ Μηδικοῦ. στρατεύματος αἰσχρῶς, ὡς ἐπύθετο τάχιστα ὁ Ἀστυάγης, ἔφη ἀπειλέων τῷ Κύρῳ “ἀλλ' οὐδ' ὣς Κῦρός γε χαιρήσει.” [2] τοσαῦτα εἶπας πρῶτον μὲν τῶν Μάγων τοὺς ὀνειροπόλους, οἵ μιν ἀνέγνωσαν μετεῖναι τὸν Κῦρον, τούτους ἀνεσκολόπισε, μετὰ δὲ ὥπλισε τοὺς ὑπολειφθέντας ἐν τῷ ἄστεϊ* τῶν Μήδων, νέους τε καὶ πρεσβύτας ἄνδρας. [3] ἐξαγαγὼν δὲ τούτους καὶ συμβαλὼν τοῖσι Πέρῃσι ἑσσώθη, καὶ αὐτός τε Ἀστυάγης ἐζωγρήθη καὶ τοὺς ἐξήγαγε τῶν Μήδων ἀπέβαλε.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...&lo c=1.128.1
Citim:
CXXVIII. Thus the Median army was shamefully scattered. As soon as Astyages heard, he sent a threatening message to Cyrus: “Nevertheless, Cyrus shall not rejoice”; [2] and with that he took the Magi who interpreted dreams, who had persuaded him to let Cyrus go free, and impaled them; then he armed the Medes who were left in the city, the very young and very old men. [3] Leading these out, and engaging the Persians, he was beaten: Astyages himself was taken prisoner, and lost the Median army which he led.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...&lo c=1.128.1
Termi qė pėrdoret kėtu ėshtė ἀνεσκολόπισε, vt.I nj. ανασκολοπιζω, pra hunjėzoj dhe shihet se pėrkthimi kalohet saktė nė anglisht si impaled.

Citim:
[3] ἀποκτείνας* δέ μιν οὐκ ἀξίως ἀπηγήσιος Ὀροίτης ἀνεσταύρωσε: τῶν δέ οἱ ἑπομένων ὅσοι μὲν ἦσαν Σάμιοι*, ἀπῆκε, κελεύων σφέας ἑωυτῷ χάριν εἰδέναι ἐόντας ἐλευθέρους, ὅσοι δὲ ἦσαν ξεῖνοί τε καὶ δοῦλοι τῶν ἑπομένων, ἐν ἀνδραπόδων λόγῳ ποιεύμενος εἶχε. [4] Πολυκράτης δὲ ἀνακρεμάμενος ἐπετέλεε πᾶσαν τὴν ὄψιν τῆς θυγατρός: ἐλοῦτο μὲν γὰρ ὑπὸ τοῦ Διὸς ὅκως ὕοι, ἐχρίετο δὲ ὑπὸ τοῦ ἡλίου, ἀνιεὶς αὐτὸς ἐκ τοῦ σώματος ἰκμάδα.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...&lo c=3.125.3
Citim:
[3] Having killed him in some way not fit to be told, Oroetes then crucified him; as for those who had accompanied him, he let the Samians go, telling them to thank him that they were free; those who were not Samians, or were servants of Polycrates' followers, he kept for slaves. [4] And Polycrates hanging in the air fulfilled his daughter's vision in every detail; for he was washed by Zeus when it rained, and he was anointed by Helios as he exuded sweat from his body.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...&lo c=3.125.3
Ndėrkaq shihet kėtu se si ndryshon standardi i pėrkthimit kur folja kalon nga aneskolopiseanestavrose, ku e para, si mė lart, sillet si hunjėzoi, ndėrsa e dyta si kryqėzoi; ndėrkohė qė qė tė dyja pėrkthehen hunjėzim, ngulje nė hu dhe s'kanė tė bėjnė me asnjė lloj kryqi. Ėshtė gabimi kuptimor qė pėrmenda mė lart i ndikuar nga latinishtja.

Gjithashtu nė lidhje me komentin mė lart tek Polibi, shihet se viktimat si rregull vriteshin pėrpara se tė hunjėzoheshin. Pra hunjėzoheshin tė vdekur, gjė qė tregon qė procedura nuk ishte torturė pėr viktimėn por njė metodė frikėsimi pėr palėn kundėrshtare tė cilės i pėrkiste viktima, ndoshta dhe lloj trofeu apo shpagimi ēnderues pėr kufomėn. Dhe ndaj dhe pėrmendet si rast i veēantė mė lart ku Hanibali u hunjėzua i gjallė...


Nė vepėr pėrdoret dhe dy herė tė tjera termi anaskolopizo - gjithnjė hunjėzoj. Normalisht kemi njė tregues tjetėr se dhe tek persėt pėrdoret hunjėzimi dhe jo "kryqėzimi".

Citim:
CXXXII. τότε δὴ ὁ Δημοκήδης ἐν τοῖσι Σούσοισι ἐξιησάμενος Δαρεῖον οἶκόν τε μέγιστον εἶχε καὶ ὁμοτράπεζος βασιλέι ἐγεγόνεε, πλήν τε ἑνὸς τοῦ ἐς Ἕλληνας ἀπιέναι πάντα τἆλλά οἱ παρῆν. [2] καὶ τοῦτο μὲν τοὺς Αἰγυπτίους ἰητρούς, οἳ βασιλέα πρότερον ἰῶντο, μέλλοντας ἀνασκολοπιεῖσθαι ὅτι ὑπὸ Ἕλληνος ἰητροῦ ἑσσώθησαν, τούτους βασιλέα παραιτησάμενος ἐρρύσατο: τοῦτο δὲ μάντιν* Ἠλεῖον Πολυκράτεϊ ἐπισπόμενον καὶ ἀπημελημένον ἐν τοῖσι ἀνδραπόδοισι ἐρρύσατο. ἦν δὲ μέγιστον πρῆγμα Δημοκήδης παρὰ βασιλέι.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...&lo c=3.132.1
Citim:
CLIX. Βαβυλὼν μέν νυν οὕτω τὸ δεύτερον αἱρέθη. Δαρεῖος δὲ ἐπείτε ἐκράτησε τῶν Βαβυλωνίων, τοῦτο μὲν σφέων τὸ τεῖχος περιεῖλε καὶ τὰς πύλας πάσας ἀπέσπασε: τὸ γὰρ πρότερον ἑλὼν Κῦρος τὴν Βαβυλῶνα ἐποίησε τούτων οὐδέτερον: τοῦτο δὲ ὁ Δαρεῖος τῶν ἀνδρῶν τοὺς κορυφαίους μάλιστα ἐς τρισχιλίους ἀνεσκολόπισε*, τοῖσι δὲ λοιποῖσι Βαβυλωνίοισι ἀπέδωκε τὴν πόλιν οἰκέειν.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...&lo c=3.159.1

Historikisht, hunjėzimi nė Azi, dhe nė botė, nis me ligjin e Hamurabit (1760 pes) mbretit mesopotam/babilon, ku njėri nga ndėshkimet pėr vrasjen e bashkėshortėve, nė bashkėpunim, ėshtė ngulja nė hu.

Citim:
If the wife of one man on account of another man has their mates (her husband and the other man's wife) murdered, both of them shall be impaled.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/MESO/CODE.HTM
  Pėrgjigju duke cituar
I vjetėr 21.6.2013, 18:26   7
mesdimr
MBARĖVAJTJA
 
mesdimr
 
Anėtarėsuar: 6.2001
Po i kthehem kėsaj temės, pas shumė kohe, po kėsaj radhe nė lidhje me Spartakun, se ra fjala dje gjatė njė bisede pėr kryengritėsit e Spartakut nėse u "kryqėzuan" rrugės pėr nė Romė pasi u mundėn nga ushtria romake.

Me njė verifikim tė shpejtė, teksti qė pėrshkruan ngjarjen vjen vetėm nga Apiani. Pėr kontekst ky ka shkruar nė vitet 100 e.s. ndėrsa ngjarjet qė referon mė poshtė kanė ndodhur nė 100 p.e.s., pra kemi rreth 200 vjet distancė:

Citim:
Thėnė nga anglisht

[119] Spartacus tried to break through and make an incursion into the Samnite country, but Crassus slew about 6000 of his men in the morning and as many more towards evening. Only three of the Roman army were killed and seven wounded, so great was the improvement in their morale inspired by the recent punishment. Spartacus, who was expecting from somewhere a reėnforcement of horse, no longer went into battle with his whole army, but harassed the besiegers by frequent sallies here and there. He fell upon them unexpectedly and continually, threw bundles of fagots into the ditch and set them on fire and made their labor difficult. He crucified a Roman prisoner in the space between the two armies to show his own men what fate awaited them if they did not conquer. When the Romans in the city heard of the siege they thought it would be disgraceful if this war against gladiators should be prolonged. Believing also that the work still to be done against Spartacus was great and severe they ordered up the army of Pompey, which had just arrived from Spain, as a reėnforcement.

[120] On account of this vote Crassus tried in every way to come to an engagement with Spartacus so that Pompey might not reap the glory of the war. Spartacus himself, thinking to anticipate Pompey, invited Crassus to come to terms with him. When his proposals were rejected with scorn he resolved to risk a battle, and as his cavalry had arrived he made a dash with his whole army through the lines of the besieging force and pushed on to Brundusium with Crassus in pursuit. When Spartacus learned that Lucullus had just arrived in Brundusium from his victory over Mithridates he despaired of everything and brought his forces, which were even then very numerous, to close quarters with Crassus. The battle was long and bloody, as might have been expected with so many thousands of desperate men. Spartacus was wounded in the thigh with a spear and sank upon his knee, holding his shield in front of him and contending in this way against his assailants until he and the great mass of those with him were surrounded and slain. The remainder of his army was thrown into confusion and butchered in crowds. So great was the slaughter that it was impossible to count them. The Roman loss was about 1000. The body of Spartacus was not found. A large number of his men fled from the battle-field to the mountains and Crassus followed them thither. They divided themselves in four parts, and continued to fight until they all perished except 6000, who were captured and crucified along the whole road from Capua to Rome.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...ight=spartacus
Citim:
Thėnė nga greqisht

[119] βιαζομένου δ᾽ ἐς τὴν Σαυνίτιδα τοῦ Σπαρτάκου διαδραμεῖν, ἔκτεινεν ὁ Κράσσος ἐς ἑξακισχιλίους ἄλλους περὶ ἕω καὶ περὶ δείλην ἐς τοσούσδε ἑτέρους, τριῶν ἐκ τοῦ Ῥωμαίων στρατοῦ μόνων ἀποθανόντων καὶ ἑπτὰ τρωθέντων: τοσήδε ἦν αὐτίκα διὰ τὴν κόλασιν ἐς τὸ τῆς νίκης θάρσος μεταβολή. Σπάρτακος δὲ ἱππέας ποθὲν προσιόντας αὐτῷ περιμένων οὐκέτι μὲν ἐς μάχην ᾔει τῷ στρατῷ παντί, πολλὰ δ᾽ ἠνώχλει τοῖς περικαθημένοις ἀνὰ μέρος, ἄφνω τε καὶ συνεχῶς αὐτοῖς ἐπιπίπτων, φακέλους τε ξύλων ἐς τὴν τάφρον ἐμβάλλων κατέκαιε καὶ τὸν πόνον αὐτοῖς δύσεργον ἐποίει. αἰχμάλωτόν τε Ῥωμαῖον ἐκρέμασεν ἐν τῷ μεταιχμίῳ, δεικνὺς τοῖς ἰδίοις τὴν ὄψιν ὧν πείσονται, μὴ κρατοῦντες. οἱ δ᾽ ἐν ἄστει Ῥωμαῖοι τῆς πολιορκίας πυνθανόμενοι καὶ ἀδοξοῦντες, εἰ χρόνιος αὑτοῖς ἔσται πόλεμος μονομάχων, προσκατέλεγον ἐπὶ τὴν στρατείαν Πομπήιον ἄρτι ἀφικόμενον ἐξ Ἰβηρίας, πιστεύοντες ἤδη δυσχερὲς εἶναι καὶ μέγα τὸ Σπαρτάκειον ἔργον.

[120] διὰ δὲ τὴν χειροτονίαν τήνδε καὶ Κράσσος, ἵνα μὴ τὸ κλέος τοῦ πολέμου γένοιτο Πομπηίου, πάντα τρόπον ἐπειγόμενος ἐπεχείρει τῷ Σπαρτάκῳ, καὶ ὁ Σπάρτακος, τὸν Πομπήιον προλαβεῖν ἀξιῶν, ἐς συνθήκας τὸν Κράσσον προυκαλεῖτο. ὑπερορώμενος δ᾽ ὑπ᾽ αὐτοῦ διακινδυνεύειν τε ἔγνω καί, παρόντων οἱ τῶν ἱππέων ἤδη, ὤσατο παντὶ τῷ στρατῷ διὰ τοῦ περιτειχίσματος καὶ ἔφυγεν ἐπὶ Βρεντέσιον, Κράσσου διώκοντος. ὡς δὲ καὶ Λεύκολλον ἔμαθεν ὁ Σπάρτακος ἐς τὸ Βρεντέσιον, ἀπὸ τῆς ἐπὶ Μιθριδάτῃ νίκης ἐπανιόντα, εἶναι, πάντων ἀπογνοὺς ἐς χεῖρας ᾔει τῷ Κράσσῳ μετὰ πολλοῦ καὶ τότε πλήθους: γενομένης δὲ τῆς μάχης μακρᾶς τε καὶ καρτερᾶς ὡς ἐν ἀπογνώσει τοσῶνδε μυριάδων, τιτρώσκεται ἐς τὸν μηρὸν ὁ Σπάρτακος δορατίῳ καὶ συγκάμψας τὸ γόνυ καὶ προβαλὼν τὴν ἀσπίδα πρὸς τοὺς ἐπιόντας ἀπεμάχετο, μέχρι καὶ αὐτὸς καὶ πολὺ πλῆθος ἀμφ᾽ αὐτὸν κυκλωθέντες ἔπεσον. ὅ τε λοιπὸς αὐτοῦ στρατὸς ἀκόσμως ἤδη κατεκόπτοντο κατὰ πλῆθος, ὡς φόνον γενέσθαι τῶν μὲν οὐδ᾽ εὐαρίθμητον, Ῥωμαίων δὲ ἐς χιλίους ἄνδρας, καὶ τὸν Σπαρτάκου νέκυν οὐχ εὑρεθῆναι. πολὺ δ᾽ ἔτι πλῆθος ἦν ἐν τοῖς ὄρεσιν, ἐκ τῆς μάχης διαφυγόν: ἐφ᾽ οὓς ὁ Κράσσος ἀνέβαινεν. οἱ δὲ διελόντες ἑαυτοὺς ἐς τέσσαρα μέρη ἀπεμάχοντο, μέχρι πάντες ἀπώλοντο πλὴν ἑξακισχιλίων, οἳ ληφθέντες ἐκρεμάσθησαν ἀνὰ ὅλην τὴν ἐς Ῥώμην ἀπὸ Καπύης ὁδόν.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...3Achapter%3D14
Teksti anglisht thotė "u kryqėzuan", por origjinali greqisht sėrish s'ka lidhje dhe thotė "u varėn". Pra pjesa pėrkatėse e dalluar nė origjinal (pa sintaksė tė plotė) thotė:
"...vrasjet e tė cilėve ishin tė panumėrta, ndėrsa tė romakėve nė 1000 burra, dhe trupi i Spartakut nuk u gjet. Njė pjesė e madhe morėn malet, duke i ikur betejės, tė cilėt i ndoqi Krasi. Ata u ndanė nė katėr pjesė duke luftuar deri sa u vranė tė gjithė pėrveē gjashtėmijėve - tė kapurit u varėn pėrgjatė gjithė rrugės nga Kapua nė Romė."
Veē tė tjerash, Apianit duket se i pėlqen ky nr. 6000 se e pėrdor nė shumė pjesė tė veprės. Prej kėtu rruga nė fjalė vėrtet mund tė jetė kthyer nė njė shfaqje makabre me dhjetra a qindra njerėz tė vrarė varur pėrgjatė saj, por teksti greqisht nuk thotė shprehimisht nėse tė kapurit e varur ishin 6000, kjo del me deduksion, dhe as si "kryqėzim" nuk raportohet nga historiani. E qė gjithsesi njė numėr 6000 tė varurish ėshtė jashtė realitetit.

Me sa ėshtė trajtuar dhe mė herėt, mbetet interesante kėmbėngulja sistematike e anglishtfolėsve tė "kryqėzojnė" ēdo folje tė greqishtes dhe tė pėrkthejnė fjalitė nė tekste historike sikur pėrkthejnė romane...
  Pėrgjigju duke cituar
Merr pjesė nė diskutim





Ora nė Shqipėri ėshtė 01:10.

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